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By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Niall of the Nine Hostages - FamilyTreeDNA Forums So, too, do about 1-in-50 New Yorkers of European heritage, reflecting Research suggests that many men of this line are descendants of an Irish king named Niall of the Nine Hostages who ruled during the 4th and 5th centuries. niall of the nine hostages 23andme - johnnyroadtrip.com Most of the Milesian kings ruled from Tara. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Thats over eight times the number of people living in Ireland today. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. Then Niall, showing strength of character, even in his early youth, took his mother from her menial task, and restored her to her place. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels. A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the possibly-11th-century tale Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). [12] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Are McKenna's descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages? A DNA test can show if a man is related to Niall: A recent study conducted at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland, found that a striking percentage of men in Ireland (and quite a few in Scotland) share the same Y chromosome, suggesting that the 5th-century warlord known as "Niall of the Nine Hostages" may be the ancestor of one in 12 Irishmen. Nialls . the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars, through critical study of the annals, date him about half a century later. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. [15 ], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. Myth has it that he was descended by He fell on the banks of the River Loire, in France, by the hand of Eochaid, the son of Enna Ceannselaigh, King of Leinster, who, from ambush, with an arrow, shot dead the great king. The story then becomes confused. Throughout the 1600 and 1700s, thousands of Irish men of fighting age would migrate to Europe as 'Soldiers for Hire' to fight in various wars. [8] Death, The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Granted my great great great great paternal ancestor was unknown, and his son took his mothers name (which is my last name). [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, has five sons, four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig, and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breogn From the Wikipedia page about Breogan: Although this is generally regarded as myth, the conquering of Ireland by people coming from the Iberian peninsula in prehistoric times fits in with a genetic study conducted in 2006 at Oxford University, which concluded that the majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from neolithic farmers coming from the coastal north regions of Spain. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, has five sons, four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig, and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. [19][20] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. By another wife, Mon Fionn, daughter of the King of Munster, Eochaid had four sons, Brian, Fiachar, Ailill, and Fergus. [6] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve.[11]. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th . There is a similarity in both names that it is likely it is the same person. nose and a serious case of puss popping zits. Niall belongs to Haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222). County Mayo residents were fascinated to learn that there is Viking DNA in their makeup, a fact discovered thanks to the National Geographic. [10], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Within our second panel of markers the most distinctive difference from the R1b Modal is the 15,16,16,17 at DYS 464. Moore et al. After reading through their ancestry reports from 23andMe, customers can now browse Airbnb homes and experiences in their native countriesand plan vacations as unique as their DNA. The boy eventually escaped, but returned to Ireland as St. Patrick. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded.[4]:70. Niall and the Nine Hostages : 23andme - reddit.com But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. While Brian saved the cariots from the fire, Ailill a shield and a sword, Fiachra the old forge trough, and Fergus only a bundle of firewood, Niall carried out the bellows, the sledges, the anvil, and anvil block - saved the soul of the forge, and saved the smith from ruin. the brothers decide they're not that hungry or thirsty. Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. Published by at June 22, 2022. Women do not have Y-dna. [7] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. November 25, 2016. revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA The Vikings were driven out in 1014 by Brian Boru, but not before their DNA was embedded in the Celtic gene. What the badge appears to indicates by "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" is that the MRCA . Naill of the Nine Hostages (c. 357-405 AD, King of all Ireland 379-405) was one of the greatest Irish kings. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. Niall must have made many incursions into Britain and probably several into Gaul. findings led them to the notion that Niall of the Nine Hostages may be the Big [3] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. [8 ], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. signature is created. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. II, The History of Ireland by Geoffrey Keating, "The Laud Genealogies and Tribal Histories", "A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland. Niall established a royal dynasty which dominated the island for six centuries. He earned his name, Niall of the nine hostages, by being able to subdue his enemies by taking members of their family and refusing to give them back until they admitted defeat. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, had five sons: Four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig; and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. [8]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. People wanting to join this group must be managing a Ydna test from a male relative who has tested at FTdna for a Ydna test and got the little symbol that says they descend from Niall and The Nine Hostages. Niall was grandson of Muiredeach Tireach. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[3]. My guess is celtic migtation from Ireland to Northern Spain. Occasional All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. The O'Neill dynasty (Ui Nill means 'descended from Niall') is an historical [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake.[9]. Often this information is passed down through family stories, for instance, my mother claims to be a quarter Irish and so Im apparently one-eighth Irish. And ocean trembled stuck by hostile oars". Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Paternal lines are inherited through the Y chromosome, which only men have. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Dedicated to helping YOU discover your Irish Heritage. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Crypto No, if he's M222, his paternal line almost certainly came to Italy from Ireland and/or Britain. , 'The Family Tree Irish Genealogy Guide' is full of advice, tips and strategies to ease what can be a challenging journey. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. 215. Lots of the Irish nobility fled to Spain and then on to Rome in the early 1600s. The sept stronghold was at Durna Shelca, near (Carnfree) in County Roscommon. (Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH was born about 380. Irish High King Niall Of The Nine Hostages (Niall Nogallach) - DNA predominant, while the M222 pattern is found in 8.2% or one man in twelve. For it is said his was the host referred to by the Roman poet, Claudian, when in praising the Roman general, Stilicho, he says Britain was protected by this bold general. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone http://www.genealogy4u.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I17949& http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. [S9180] "Email, no hard copy" , Stewart Baldwin Medieval-L Quoting from "A New History of Ireland" except generations 5-8, which are given in the Ban Shenchus and confirmed in the O'Cathalain pedigree in O'Clery 857. and our Kathleen Hughes, "The church in Irish society, 400800, in Dibh Crinn (ed.). Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. Although brought to Ireland against his will, the . That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron. Niall, the son of Ivocatus Magumedonus ('Eochaidh the Slave-ruler'), came to lead the Connachta in the fifth century AD.[8]. H6a is is an offshoot of the broader H maternal line and is found at low levels 4% or less in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, France, Sweden and Ireland! 23andMe says I have paternal ancestry from Niall of the 9 Hostages While Moore et al. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. France, killed on the banks of River Loire. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui Over the generations, a genetic More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. Privacy Policy. historical reality of Niall of the Nine Hostages wasn't proved before the Geoghegan - Wikipedia [3] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. He and his descendants continued to dominate much of Ireland The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. The story Sometime after 379 (when he became king of Ulster), he forced the other kings of Ireland to accept him as overlord when his sons Eoghan and Conal (possibly others as well) overthrew the Ulidian kingdom in the north. Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. More recently 23andMe redefined it as R-P311 from an early ancestor associated with group M269. He formed an alliance with the Scots and Picts and sent ships to plunder England, Scotland, Wales, and France. niall of the nine hostages 23andme. The Primitive Irish Vendo is a cognate with Finn, and the Fianna were landless, aristocratic young men and women who had not yet come into their inheritance of land. See related article at Florida Irish Heritage Center. Mongfind refuses to accept the decision. Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. Trinity College study, nor do the researchers conclude that he ever existed. Medieval Irish monks supported claims to kingship or property?and gratified the egos?of their noble patrons by plotting their line of descent from Adam and Eve. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. [6], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. Mongfind refuses to accept the decision. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Howard, W.E. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". [14], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. only water for refreshment but also kingship and a great dynasty. "Nialls first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Then his father said: "It is Niall who should succeed me as Ard Righ of Eirinn". [12], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. Famous descendants include Niall's great-great-grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. [4] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestige - until they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. A son of Niall, who succeeded his father at Tara circa 427-430, welcomed St. Patrick to his court in 432. A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. The Gathering, a successful community based year-long project to invite the Diaspora to return to their ancestral homeland was held in 2013, helped first time and frequent visitors rediscover and take pride in their heritage. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Geni requires JavaScript! I descend from the same Sephardic Jewish clan over a dozen times. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal linetwo of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. In addition to the 100 participants, famous Irish names also participated including former Taoiseach [Prime Minister] of Ireland Enda Kenny and former Minister of State Michael Ring. [3] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua hArtacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[3][16] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times.[7]. We have a common ancestor that 23andMe says is the progenitor of the "Niall of Nine Hostages" dynasty, together with almost 3 million other British Isles males. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. king. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. The U Nill ruled to various degrees as kings of Ireland from the 7th to the 11th century C.E. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. In 2019, 23andMe teamed up with Airbnb to take ancestry from the page to the world stage through a newly launched Heritage Travel program. Descended from Conaire and a daughter of the High King Conn of the. The study mentions that just one of the O'Neill dynasty chieftains who died in 1423 had 18 sons with nearly a dozen women and claimed 59 grandsons. By the 8th century, the Ui Nills held power in the north west where they were known as the Northern Ui Nill, and also in the Midlands where they are known as the Southern Ui Nill. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. In The Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? Niall of the 9 Hostages - WikiTree G2G In [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. [3 ] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. Killed in Battle. Some of [14] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. widespread in literature around the world. [9], While Niall is High King, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. ", According to 23andMe.com, "The spread of haplogroup R-M269 in northern Ireland and Scotland was likely aided by men like Niall of the Nine Hostages. In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generationstwenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages")[1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. Uncommon Paternal Haplogroup For Italian? : r/23andme However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. fought his way to become King of Tara in the late 4th or early 5th century.